A Conversation With: Jim Buchli, Dick Covey,
Mike McCulley and Loren Shriver

In observance of the 25th anniversary of the first flight of the Space Shuttle Program, the USA Update sat down with USA’s own astronauts - Jim Buchli, Director of the Consolidated EVA Hardware Program, who spent a total of 490 hours in space during STS-51C in 1985, STS-61A in 1985, STS-29 in 1989 and STS-48 in 1991; Dick Covey, USA’sChief Operating
Officer, who cumulated 646 hours in space during STS 51-I in 1985, STS-38 in 1990, STS-26 in 1988 and STS-61 in 1993; Mike McCulley, USA’s President and Chief Executive Officer, who logged 119 hours on orbit on STS-34 in 1989; and Loren Shriver, Deputy Program Manager, who spent 386 hours in space on STS-51C in 1985, STS-31 in 1990 and STS-46 in 1992 – to ask them to reflect on the program.

UPDATE: What is your most vivid memory of your time as a Shuttle astronaut?

BUCHLI: One vivid memory is the sensation when the main engines and solids went off. ... The other thing that is extremely striking is the perspective you get of Earth. On my Spacelab mission, we were going over the South Pacific, and we could see the aurora over the South Pole. Here was this octopus-like, fluorescent thing moving and bending and changing beneath us. It was unbelievable. I went and got Reinhard Furrer, one of the German payload specialists, and made him come up to experience it with me. Just being able to see that and share it with someone on the flight was really spectacular. Every flight has moments like that.

COVEY: Unfortunately, my most vivid memory is the Challenger accident. I was the spacecraft communicator in the control center, and to me, that accident defines the Shuttle Program in so many ways. Being that close to it in that particular time and place make it my most vivid memory.

MCCULLEY: STS-34 obviously is the top of my list, but then you can break that into three pieces – the getting there, meaning the rocket ride; the being there and the coming back. The memories that stick with me most are being there and looking back at Earth. Also the joy of the freedom of zero gravity. I remember Challenger well and working our way through to returning to flight. I hadn’t flown yet and sometimes I wondered if I ever would. The memories surrounding return to flight last time are very graphic.

SHRIVER: It is hard to single out one or two “most vivid memories,” but I think the best answer comes from my first exposures to Shuttle liftoff and first stage. Then comes the first real look out the windows back to the Earth. The lift off and first stage were pretty much “white knuckle” events the first time through. It was very dynamic, lots of shaking and vibration along with the shear power of the boost phase.

UPDATE: How has the Space Shuttle program changed over its 25 years?

BUCHLI: As with any vehicle, the more you fly the more you learn. You learn how to manage how you operate it, how you maintain it, and you better understand the risks and trades to do the absolute optimum to keep the program safe and flying. I think we’ve done great things with the Shuttle that we probably never envisioned in the early years. EVA is one of them. We’ve moved from EVA being a last ditch contingency requirement to it being an operational capability that is integral to our ability to build the Space Station.

COVEY: I think the most significant change in the program is that Shuttle, as it was originally intended, was going to be our national launch system for commercial, DOD and NASA. It was envisioned that way, and that’s what the early Space Shuttle flights focused on – deploying satellites. Now, being the support vehicle for the International Space Station is its primary role.

MCCULLEY: In a fairly basic way, the learning curve has been steep. Every flight you learn something else, so the biggest change I see is the incredible way we use Shuttle these days. We are more aggressive with our missions now than compared to the early days. ... STS-114 was probably the most complex mission we’ve ever flown. We better utilize the whole capability of the system now.

SHRIVER: The Shuttle Program has changed significantly over the past 25 years. The Shuttle is a fantastic vehicle, capable of doing many things with humans on board. But the focus of the program has changed over time, and so some of the capabilities of the Shuttle are no longer used. The Shuttle still has the capability to do all the things it was originally conceived for. ... The outlook (of the people involved) is now more conservative in nature.

UPDATE: What do you think is the most remarkable quality of the Shuttle?

BUCHLI: The design of a space plane is remarkable. That is a huge engineering accomplishment. The other thing is the size of its payload capability and flexibility. The type of missions the Shuttle has demonstrated it is capable of doing covers a very wide range – all of which the Shuttle does very well.

COVEY: The most remarkable quality of the Shuttle is that it’s this incredible hypersonic space plane. The fact that a winged vehicle can come from orbit through the atmosphere to a landing on a runway is by far the design feature that makes it most unique.

MCCULLEY: I think the Shuttle’s most remarkable qualities are its tremendous capabilities and flexibilities – what it can carry and what it can do. We’ve put humans in the loop with a magnificent flying machine. Nothing that we’ve had, nor will have for years to come, decades to come, has anywhere near that quality, strength, flexibility and capability of the Shuttle.

UPDATE: What is the most significant thing we’ve learned from flying the Space Shuttle?

COVEY: I think what we’ve learned is that going to and from space, even in a reusable winged vehicle like the Space Shuttle, remains incredibly dangerous. Even with 25 years experience with the Shuttle, we still have to deal with the danger of accelerating through the atmosphere to orbital speed and then decelerating through that same atmosphere to land on the Earth.

MCCULLEY: We’ve learned that you can never relax. The Shuttle is like other high-energy systems. You have to be vigilant at all times. We’ve had two tragic accidents, both of which were preventable had we recognized some symptoms as being serious earlier.

SHRIVER: I think the most significant thing we have learned from 25 years of Shuttle flight is that humans make the program work, and they also are a big factor when complex, risky operations do not work well.

UPDATE: What has been the Shuttle’s most significant accomplishment?

BUCHLI: Probably the most important accomplishment of the Shuttle program is the ability to build on past programs to increase our understanding and operational capability to move forward. Without Shuttle, I don’t think we would have the confidence to go beyond Earth orbit back to the moon and on to Mars.

COVEY: I’m a little biased on this one, but to me the most significant accomplishment is the deployment and servicing of the Hubble Space Telescope. ... If you look at the great science that has come from Hubble and then realize that it was made possible through the combination of a great scientific instrument partnered with human spaceflight through the Shuttle, that makes it the most noble of our nation’s space missions.

SHRIVER: The Shuttle’s most significant accomplishment? Launch, on-orbit ops, landing and then recycle to launch again. Each and every time, it has done this. It is the world’s first and only reusable space vehicle.

UPDATE: What do you think the Space Shuttle’s place in history will be?

BUCHLI: The Shuttle ... has served as a platform for international cooperation. So going from the Cold War to technical joint ventures with the Russians, the Shuttle has been pivotal in making that happen. At least in one area, we can point to international cooperation that ... has made us all better.

COVEY: A century from now, history will reflect on the Space Shuttle era and marvel at how advanced we were at this point in time with reusable spacecraft. I use the analogy of the B-58 Hustler. In the late ‘50s it became the first supersonic Mach 2 bomber. It didn’t fly operationally for very long ... but as we look back at it now, it seems like a remarkable piece of technology that was far advanced for its time. I think the Space Shuttle will be seen that way.

MCCULLEY: It will be interesting to see. There are a lot of detractors because of the cost and the complexity and the accidents we’ve had. If those detractors write the most books, then the Shuttle role in history may not be regarded as positively as it should be. It should be that the Shuttle has been key in the development of the capability of the United States to work, operate and build in low Earth orbit. Its legacy will be that we learned so much from the Shuttle that it allowed us to move on to the next phase of space flight and go back to the moon and on to Mars.

SHRIVER: I imagine history – if it is told fairly and accurately – will show that the Shuttle was a very significant achievement in human spaceflight. It was designed, and can do, just about anything in low Earth orbit. It is reusable, and it is complex. It signifies the engineering, scientific and technological capabilities of our society. It has been a motivator of young people and a symbol of our competitive and explorative spirit. It should be viewed as a source of great national pride.

UPDATE: As employees reflect this anniversary, what would you tell them?

BUCHLI: To look back and be proud of where we’ve been is important. It gives us the confidence to move forward, and no one should ever take anything away from that. The most important thing is to use where we’ve been as a platform for what’s next.

COVEY: Those of us who have been able to be part of the Space Shuttle Program have been very fortunate, indeed. It’s an unparalleled, unmatched remarkable national and international achievement and success. Bottom line, we are all lucky to be a part of that.

MCCULLEY: I would tell them that they always need to remember that the employees of USA are an integral and immensely important part of not just any program, but of a program that has established the United States as the leader in human spaceflight.

SHRIVER: I would like to tell employees that they have been a part of a great and hugely successful program. ... They should consider that they have been a part of all of the great accomplishments over the past 25 years and that their skills and expertise will continue to help this country achieve great things in the future.

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